Clearance on 14 bolt Semifloat?

[TJVigilante]

I was reading around somewhere and saw that a 14 bolt wasn't a recommended swap due to it being low-hanging....but it didn't specify FF or SF, the SF has a 1" smaller ring gear diameter so I figured that may help matters much, just a half inch bigger than a Ford 9" and that's a super-popular swap...will it matter much? Can I grind the axle housing down for better clearance? Will it matter much with 36" tires? Just getting a feel for what I'm getting myself into here.

[4x4_MMMH_4x4]

thats a hint to trade me and make some cash:P

[89YJSean]

1/2 Inch isn't going to make enough difference to worry about, I wouldn't recommend grinding the axle housing down, It is designed the way it is, for strength

[4x4_MMMH_4x4]

you can shave a 14 bolt though and still have enough... theres tech on it all over the place...

[AK20]

Yeah you can safely cut\grind up to an 1 inch of a 14 bolt housing and be fine, most people get away with 5\8" to 3\4" of cutting.

[ChevyKev]

Check out Pirate 4x4 in the tech section - 14 Bolt Bible. Good info with pictures for peoples like me!

[TJVigilante]

wrd, thanks.

[TJVigilante]

That writeup is only for the full floater, is there much of a difference in part availability for the semifloater? I also don't like the idea of trimming down the ring gear and cutting off a good chunk of thehousing including 3 bolt mounting locations...

[STOMPR]

The semi float has more clearance I`d just run it like it is.

[AK20]

That writeup is only for the full floater, is there much of a difference in part availability for the semifloater? I also don't like the idea of trimming down the ring gear and cutting off a good chunk of thehousing including 3 bolt mounting locations...

There write up is the more extreme version of cutting the 14 bolt. Most people just cut/grind as much of the lip off as they can while keeping it under the very bottom bolt. Then just use the grinder to smooth up the lip on the back (driveshaft side) where things seem to drag and get caught. Some will ever weld on a piece of plate to the remaining lip and housing to help things slide over the diff. Get creative:allrighty:

[TJVigilante]

sounds good, and that's what I had in mind. Still, how common are the SF axles? The writeup mentioned nearly-free axle shafts yadda yadda, that piqued my interest, but I imagine the SF axles aren't as common and more expensive. Not like I'll be breaking them anytime soon or anything.

[ChevyKev]

A chevy question I don't know! I have no idea how common the SF are.
I know most people loiok for the FF. And the difference is something I forget how to explain. different bearing set-ups is the basics. I believe the SF are the newer of the axles though. SO 80's and 90's rigs should have SF's.... maybe...

[STOMPR]

I believe it is the diffrence of 3/4 ton and 1 ton SF is a 3/4 ton. There are SF and FF in the 80s and 90s I would venture to guess that there are close to the same numbers of both out there. Like Kev said most people look for FF if I was you I would, and if you are planning on regearing let me know and I may even have a axle for ya.

[TJVigilante]

sounds good, but if I get around to breaking even the SF axles, I'll start to worry myself. :D

[STOMPR]

Something else to consider if you do break a SF axle it will depart from your vehicle with a wheel, but a FF would not.

[Advent]

And the difference is something I forget how to explain. different bearing set-ups is the basics. I believe the SF are the newer of the axles though. SO 80's and 90's rigs should have SF's.... maybe...

I don't think the year has much to do with it. Full floaters are preferred for a number of reasons, from safety to capacity.

A full floater doesn't carry the weight of the vehicle on the axle shafts. It has a hub like a front axle, with the axle coming through and bolting to that. A semi floater almost always has a clip inside the differential to hold the shaft in, which in turn has to hold the wheels on. If you were to break a semi-floater, the shaft can come out along with the wheel. In fact, semi-floaters are illegal in some places for safety reasons.

The advantage to the semi-floater is that generally it is lighter and requires less maintenance. There are less bearings to deal with, and the large hub assembly is eliminated.

The strength gain of the full floater is simply that the shaft doesn't hold weight. It is only subject to the torque forces of the drivetrain and available traction. In some cases, Land Cruisers for instance, full floaters are only as strong as the semi-floaters. Toyota took the liberty of making the shafts smaller since they didn't need to stand up to the same pressures. When the axle shafts are the same size, a full floater carries the strength advantage.

As for the year issue, I don't think that's the case. The lighter duty 3/4 tons tended to have the semi floater, while the heavy duties have full floaters. That's even changed as trucks have gotten tougher over the years. A "half ton" pickup now is almost as strong as a 1 ton even ten years old. Now they're pretty much the only place you'll find semi-floating axles.

As for the differential differences, there really aren't any in many cases. In Land Cruisers, the 3rd member is exactly the same, except for certain locker applications (in which case the full float works in anything, the semi-float won't). The 14 bolt seems to be the exception to that rule, so I can't comment on what exactly the differences are. You're pretty much stuck asking for parts for whatever year and model vehicle it came out of, which it sounds like you may not know. :(

[TJVigilante]

i'm planning a disc brake swap on the rear so that'll help me a little, at least let me limp home without having to ski out :p

[Advent]

i'm planning a disc brake swap on the rear so that'll help me a little, at least let me limp home without having to ski out :p
Not on the roads it won't. I wouldn't go above even 10mph in that scenario. I've seen people try and have their caliper brackets bust loose before. An axle shaft and wheel departing from a vehicle on the highway makes for a sickening sight.

In one case I witnessed, the sparks lit the spilling brake fluid on fire, starting both the truck and the nearby brush on fire as it skidded to a stop. While both fires were put out pretty quickly, the axle housing was destroyed.

[TJVigilante]

Ok then, it'll let me limp off the trail and let me change out the axleshaft in a normal position.

[Advent]

It will do that. I know a guy who limped 55 miles off a trail with a busted semi-floater shaft. It tore his differential to shreds, but it worked. And yes, he'd removed the small busted chunk.

[sevenslats]

there are width differences in the SF and FF 14-bolt applications as well.
width from WMS to WMS (obviously the hub makes the assembly wider :doh: )

[Advent]

Yes, but the housing can be shorter to make up for the wider hub.

If I'm not mistaken, dually 14 bolts are pretty darn narrow.

[STOMPR]

Joe what front axle do you have Chevy D44 ? should be 67.5 WMS to WMS right? A Dana 60 would be 69.5 so if you uped your rear to a FF I bet you would be 2 inches wider if you went Chevy but Ford I am not sure I may have a Ford D60 not sure what the WMS on that is, ANyone?

[TJVigilante]

the rear I have is already about 3 inches wider than the front, I don't want to go much if at all wider than that in the rear. I wouldn't mind a full floating D60 instead as I hear it's got a much smaller center section than the 14 bolt...

[Advent]

I know of a full floater Dana 60 minus shafts out at South Cushman...I was going to snag the hubs but if you want the whole thing I'll help you pull it.

[TJVigilante]

Hmm, we'll have to check that out someday, but again I have nowhere to put it and no way to get it out of there.

[Advent]

Tape it really good to some jackstands and use it as playground equipment in the back yard :laugh:

[TJVigilante]

backyard......hmm......what's that?

(I live on campus right now) :p

[Advent]

I thought you had deck space over in Hess?

[TJVigilante]

Yeah but that's where my daughter camps out in the summer.

[Advent]

Mount it on a set of old coil springs and have her ride it like a pony :cool:

[TJVigilante]

Anyway, now for some productive discussion....:p