Horrible cold start habits

[pyrotmaniac]

OK I don't know how to start this off. I have searched the old files because I figured that someone else would have had the same problem but nothing really came up.

My problem is whenever it gets really, really cold My F-250 won't start. Its a single battery setup.
These are the winterizing on the truck. I have a Napa NASCAR series battery with 675 CCA.

winter stuff:
Oil pan heater
Trans pan heater
Block heater
battery blanket warmer
Trickle charger

I had to put the trickle charger on it because the battery blanket wasn't doing a good enough job. and the battery was giving up around -15. With the two I was able to start it up to -35. As you all know its been colder than that for the last couple of days. I left it plugged in last night for about 12 hours. I checked the light I wired in to make sure it was getting underhood juice, it was on. But in the morning it turned over twice and that was it. I tried to jump it and it was just plane dead. I pulled the battery and brought it into the barracks along with the trickle charger. Its all set up warming up now.
My questions are.

1) What can be done to prevent this. Many people I work with don't have anything for the battery and have no cold start problems.

2) It was suggested to me that my fuel milage problems may be related to the pressure regulator internal boot being cracked. Assuming I am running rich could the fouling be enough to. keep it from firing at these temps.

3) I was thinking of adding more grounding points to the engine instead of just the one from the factory. We did this with the hot rod and it is supposed to take some of the stress off of the ignition system. Would this help in this situation?

4) Any suggestions off the wall or not are welcome at this point.

[TJVigilante]

Get a battery with 875CCA or more. At 0* a battery has about 35% cranking power compared to 65*, -40 it's even worse than that. You want the most CCA you can get. A grounding kit won't help your starting, because the starter has probably the best ground possible, directly to the block with a nice big ground strap/wire to the battery. You may want to ground the block better with a bigger strap/cable(6-8 gauge would be pretty decent).

[pyrotmaniac]

Hmmm. I should have known that. The fact is that I missed that one. (insert lame excuse here, ie. stress, lack of sleep etc.) What about putting a remote battery in the cab behind the seat. Or would the power loss dure to the risistance of the cables/length take away any benifits. I mean realistcly its not too hard to do. I looked under the hood and dont have a good place to put another battery there. That is unless I remove the radiator overflow.

[TJVigilante]

Yeah you can mount another battery in the cabin. if anything it'll double your CCA available. The added cable shouldn't really matter, cold makes metals more conductive.Your problem is the reaction between the acid and the lead slows down in colder temps, producing less electrons.

[4x4_MMMH_4x4]

summit has some batteries with 1200 CCA thats the route i would go, there like 400$ and up though

[STOMPR]

I would also double check your pan and block heaters to make sure that they are working, as it would have a hard cold start if that was the issue also.

[pyrotmaniac]

This is something I was wondering about. I put those on the truck so I know that they are brand new. I just dont know how hot they get. should it be hot to the touch even in the cold? If so then there is most likly something wrong with them. But like I said I have an underhood light to let me know that stuff is getting power.

[STOMPR]

Just because you are getting power to the cord doesnt mean they are working, yes they should feel warm to the touch, this is how I have always checked mine.

[akdsmer]

Yeah you can mount another battery in the cabin. if anything it'll double your CCA available. The added cable shouldn't really matter, cold makes metals more conductive.Your problem is the reaction between the acid and the lead slows down in colder temps, producing less electrons.


There are the same number of electrons (the electrons just move back and forth between the positive and negative plates as the battery is charged and discharged). They just don't flow as quickly, because the valance electrons are not moving as quickly, so the electrons can't "skip" across them nearly as readily.....

[TJVigilante]

how about this one, the electrolyte pulls the electrons from the positive end to the negative end, which creates the charge imbalance, thus creating the voltage "push". The cold inhibits this process. That's what I meant, just simplified. I guess it's a little bit of everything.

[4x4_MMMH_4x4]

aaa whoo da wwatttt????????

[akdsmer]

It's more like:

The push is the abundance of electrons on the negative plate vs the lack of electrons on the postive plate. When current flows, electrons travel across the circuit (starter, ignition, stereo and assorted bling) from the negative plate to the positive plate of the battery. While this is happening, electrons also must then travel from the positive plate, through the electrolytic solution via the use of Cations (positve ions with a deficiency of electrons). The ionic transfer of electrons through the electrolyte is what "consumes" the sulfuric acid, depositing in on the negative plate (which is mostly comprised of sponge lead and calcium).

IE... the push is done externally through the vehicle circuitry, but there is also a transfer of the same number of electrons through the solution up to the point there is no more sulfuric acid to transfer the electrons, thus current flow is dead...and so is your pimpin' neon chassis lights!

And someone said I only knew "emissions crap"..... :laugh:

[STOMPR]

OK brainiacs stop confusing me with your big words :laugh: It comes down to this, when its cold outside your battery doesnt put out as much "Juice"

[pyrotmaniac]

Ok well lets talk about battery brands who makes the best one? how much should I pay? I hear sears has 975 cca batterys can I find any in fairbanks that are stronger?

thanks for all the help

[TJVigilante]

sears has 875cca die hard SUV batteries' Other places have more, but their warranties aren't as long.

[michaeljr5]

I have one of those Walmart DuraMaxx Maxx Life ones. It's yellow. It's the best one they have. It's awesome!

[akdsmer]

If you want a real battery....


http://www.enersysreservepower.com/PC2150_Intro.asp

[pyrotmaniac]

Hmmm. I checked the oil pan heaters and yes they are working. after nearly 24 hours the trickle charger finally said it was charged. So I took my battery back down to the truck and hooked it all up. opened the door and the interior light was bright and ready to go. When I turned the key nothing happened. Next I hooked up jumper cables to it and another truck. Let it sit like that for 15 min. When I turned the key still nothing, no clik clik clik, no hearing the power drop. nothing. Come to think about it I didnt hear the other truck power drop when I hooked up the cables. I got under it and banged on the starter with a wrench but i know it wasnt the starter because it didnt even engage at all. I am starting to get really frustrated with this thing. kinda glad I'm buying michael's nissan now. I still ned to get the rig running though.

Anyone here have any ideas, I'm running out

[michaeljr5]

Clean your terminals on the battery. Get them down snug on the battery. I have this exact problem with the Dodge. Its a loose connection on the ground.

[pyrotmaniac]

Yes!!! that must be it. The terminal on the NEG side is a replacement. When I was putting the battery back in I noticed the wire going into it were loose. I tightened it down, Mabey I should go back and have another look.

thanks

[michaeljr5]

Did it work?

[TJVigilante]

I'd say the cable to the starter is broken. You're getting power to everything but the starter, so that's my guess.

[pyrotmaniac]

Have not had time to check it yet. things got hectic last night and I really hate working on stuff in the cold. Since I live in the barraks all I have is the icey parking lot to work on it in. I'll check it out tonight.

Oh michaeljr5 I'm gonna try to get with you this weekend or on monday. I had to get some stuff fed ex'd to me once its here were in business.

[SHoppe715]

Have you tested both the battery and the charging system to make sure they're working right. If one goes bad and you wait too long you can kill the other from overworking it. Often, if a battery is good and fried, you can't even jump the poor thing.

Almost any shop in town will check your alternator and load test your battery for free. Just putting a voltage meter across the posts or relying on the "fully charged" light won't cut it. Sears will test underhood for free but then they'll try to sell you stuff whether you need it or not. You obviously can take the parts out so the best place in my opinion is AK Electrical Rebuilders on VanHorn Rd. They'll only bench test, though. No work on engine.

edit... sometimes, depending on how the battery died, you will still have dome light and other low power accessories; just not enough juice to crank the engine. I don't know the theories and principals, this is all just past observations.

Good luck.

[TJVigilante]

sears won't test for free, they charge 12.99 for a full underhood test but they won't pressure sell you anything you don't want, unless you get the wrong person. If you want no-hassle work at Sears, talk to Layne, there almost every day.

[pyrotmaniac]

cool I'll have to do that when i can get a ride up there thanks guys. Someone had said you can "smoke" the starter from cranking it too much. I worked my starter pretty hard trying to get the truck to start. could this be it as well.

[SHoppe715]

It didn't sound like you were able to run it long enough or hard enough to heat it up and fry the motor. Odds are better you'll toast something electronic if you try to jumpstart anything with an engine computer and modern goodies. What you did with the charger and bringing the battery inside was your best bet. It not woking after that is what makes me think the battery's bad. Especially if it's a few years old, froze, and has been completely drained a few times.

Again, good luck.

[gamble71]

sounds to me like the battery "dropped a cell". There's plenty of voltage, but no cranking amps. Pull the battery and have it tested. Had this happen quite a few times... crap happens. At least sounds like it to me

[AKMark]

I've had great luck with 1000CCA Interstate's and I'm now using Red top Optima's. I love the optima's power and how it doesn't mind getting discharged. Most batteries won't last long after a good discharge occurs.

[Jackrabbit]

Just my .02 cents, but ABS Alaskan has good batteries I have gotten several from them. and they do have 1000 CCA. Plus great service. Also they have a 1.5 amp trickle charger, which works great. Good luck.

[AKJeeper]

I've had really good luck with Interstate Batteries (this is what I run in my Dakota and the ZJ I used to have). AC Delco batteries (if you can find a dealer) have also treated me very well. And don't laugh - the high-line Walmart batteries seem to hold up well too. Not bad if you're on a budget.

I never liked the Napa batteries at all. We have had such bad luck w/ Napa batteries, starters, and alternators at work that we've pretty much stopped using them. Never had so many batteries spew acid everywhere, or just become weak all of a sudden. And starters/alternators that die in less than a year? No thanks.

I've got a Sears Diehard Gold in my XJ now. Bought it a couple years before I left Fairbanks. Seems to do OK, but it is starting to get a little weak. If I were to do it again, I'd go for an Interstate or the premium Walmart battery. Both offer pretty good bang for the buck.

[pyrotmaniac]

Ok I put a new battery in today, I got the new energizer car batteries. they are half the price of the interstate ones and have more cranking amps and quite a bit more CCA. +I had never heard of them before but the guy at the shop said they were pretty okay. I took a chance. So even with the new battery nothing happens when I turn the key. I dont off road the truck much and certainly not before the problems started. It was cranking before and I am now pretty sure that I smoked the starter. Its the only thing on that circut as far as I know. Do any of you know if there is a fuseable link on the Positive cable to the starter. Does ford even use those. Man I never missed my K5 so bad. anyone have a starter for a 351w gimmie a shout.

[TJVigilante]

either you fried your starter or as I said before you probably fried the cable from the battery to the starter.

[nate379]

Neutral Saftety switch??

[gp_1]

Might be the starter solenoid. Try jumping that before replacing the starter.

[pyrotmaniac]

Changed the starter. problem persists.+ I dont belive the wires are bad. Thinking the ignition. guess thats the next+ thing to try. I hate fords! well I guess let me know if you feel like I'm going in the wrong direction. I'm going to try running a wire from the battery to the side of the starter that recives the ignition signal. To test the ignition signal first. I really appriciate the help guys.
Guess its time to stop being cheap about things and get a good fluke meter too. Oh and I almost forgot its a 1995 F250 5.8 liter.

[gp_1]

What year model is it?

[ChevyKev]

I never missed my K5 so bad.

Not to worry, I have several in my backyard. Sell the Ford and put a K5 together! ;D

K-5 Body, 1/2 ton axles, 700 r-4 and 208 (it's what I have), and a rebuildable 350... make offer!

I could probably even dig up 2-4 inches of lift ;D